Curse

nova_lyphe · Dec 20, 2006, 08:45 AM // 08:45

I have recently inherited a small guild, that is primarily PvE based but after speaking to a few of the members they all seem interested in starting GvGing

Now like anything, i know this is going to take a lot of time and a great deal of patience in order to develop some skill within the PvP arena, so my question to you experienced players out their is 'Is it worth gainin PvE experience in more than one profession to provide versitility within GvG?

I have only really played a Mesmer, i started with it and loved it right from the very beginning, i have toyed with other characters but never took them through the game in the same mannor as my mesmer. Will this affect our GvG team if i am asked for example to play as a Ranger flag runner? or will i develop the experience just GvGing? The reason i ask is i am considering playing either an Assassin or a Monk in PvE just so i know them if im required to play them in GvG.

Any advice would be great.

Cheers

Nova

Seamus Finn · Dec 20, 2006, 08:51 AM // 08:51

I guess PvE experience is nice jsut so you can learn the skills in a slwoer manner. But in all honesty, most of the top players probably know at least what 90% of the skills in all classes do. If I were to start cramming, I would try to play as many of the "template" class bars as I could, even if it were in RA. Then you would know to a certain degree, what to expect when fighting certain classes. But going from PvE straight to gvg can be a long road, jsut try to have fun and not get discouraged.

stueyman2099 · Dec 20, 2006, 09:57 AM // 09:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seamus Finn

I guess PvE experience is nice jsut so you can learn the skills in a slwoer manner. But in all honesty, most of the top players probably know at least what 90% of the skills in all classes do. If I were to start cramming, I would try to play as many of the "template" class bars as I could, even if it were in RA. Then you would know to a certain degree, what to expect when fighting certain classes. But going from PvE straight to gvg can be a long road, jsut try to have fun and not get discouraged.

Pretty much. I can tell you what any skill is, does, and what that character likely also has on his skill bar and attributes just from watching one skill icon, and looking at his professions and maybe equips. This goes for any class. As for playing, I limit myself to frontline melee combat, playing warrior, dervish, and somtimes a bunny thumper.

shardfenix · Dec 20, 2006, 10:01 AM // 10:01

Mesmers will always have a place in GvG due to their ability to res people quickly and effectively without using a one-shot signet.

Oh crap, [skill]signet of return[/skill]

Honestly, mesmers are amazing in PvP. If you can't find a way to fit one in, and you really want one, mod the build a little.

Servant of Kali · Dec 20, 2006, 10:43 AM // 10:43

Unlike what some will say, PvE will teach you very very little when it comes to skill. Check how many PvErs have completed the games, more than once, and still tons of them use Mending. On monk, warrior, etc. PvE is good because you can use all kind of skill combinations and you will still win, simply because PvE is so easy. But, that also means you wont learn how to optimize. And optimization is the difference between win and loss in PvP. If you monk is not using his energy pool correctly = RiP. Same with other classes.

If you played PvE with only one profession that's enough to get some insight in how this game works. PvE wont teach you more than that. PvE learning curve begins somewhere in pre-searing and ends in northern shiverpeaks.

So, if you want to play ranger flag runner etc, you need GvG experience. If you played lots of TA, most GvG builds wont give you any problems. If you only did HA and RA, you'll need to ..well practice more in GvG, which is ok, as long as you dont get demoralized in the beginning.

bluechestdude · Dec 20, 2006, 10:46 AM // 10:46

mesmers are the most versatile proffessions out there, they can counter any proffession they like (including other mesmers) Unfortunately they cant be great against everyone (eg migraine mesmers will be good against spell casters not melee unless u have spirit of failure and the degen is nice) But if u want versatility try running one warrior and then random ele, mes and derv builds that should give u plenty the LOD monk runner out is pretty versatile but i like old school emos better the ability to snare with ur team is too much to pass up..

Lightbulb · Dec 20, 2006, 11:02 AM // 11:02

Being able to play more than one class is obviously a bonus when it comes to the number of teams you can build.

However you guys are just starting out therefore everyone getting to know one role is probably a good idea!

The most important thing, and i know its gonna sound abit lame but its true, is to have fun. You will not win at firstm not all the time anyways. Just spectate some people and see what kinds of build they use - and what they do. Only 1/4 to 1/2 of gvg is about the build. The rest is players skill and tactics. Bad tactics lose games, good tactics win otherwise impossible games.

Luckily all of it gets better with practice. However if yuo don't run a decent(ish) build you will be behind by the 25% and it will hurt you. Post a build up here once you've given it some thought.

With first builds go with something simple, both to play individually and also to have tactics for.

If you want to get good at gvg don't play spike - unless you find that fun.

Dragannia · Dec 20, 2006, 01:38 PM // 13:38

Diversion is your friend.

Mo Joe Joe Joe · Dec 20, 2006, 02:52 PM // 14:52

I wish you luck in your endevior. You will be amazed at the differences between PVE and PVP. I strongly recommend you guys search your friend list and find someone with some PVP background and patience to help you guys learn the ropes.

To answer your main question; working on another class in PVE will give you a few small benefits to PVP play. Unlock skills, familiarity with skills, and some idea of the strength and weakness of the classes. If you become the leader of your guilds PVP effort (this is not always the guild leader), knowledge of all classes becomes important.

red orc · Dec 20, 2006, 03:37 PM // 15:37

From someone who started there:
Forget all you know about PVE. Create PVP chars and run RA/TA.
The biggest problem with PvE is that there is only one party attacking.
You have the time to think and prepare and the AI is stupid.
While in PVP the enemy actualy attacks you (lol), outsmart you and outrun you.
Go to RA with your faborite build, and see you roll over nicely. Now GvG involves much more skilled ppl than RA, but it's a start

v for Valkier · Dec 20, 2006, 03:53 PM // 15:53

Imo, to be the best you can be, you want to know how to play every class out there so when you face it in split situations or whatnot you have personal experience from playing it and therefore you know the builds weaknesses.
What Stuey said, if you know an enemies build by him just using a single skill, thats just an extra ability you want pick up if your shooting to get to high level GvG. But for starters, i would just learn the basics/mechanics of GvG and try to excell at the class you've been regularly playing.

And PvE is fun when your taking a break from PvP. <3

Warskull · Dec 20, 2006, 05:17 PM // 17:17

PvE is good initially to learn the controls and get comfortable with how the game feels in a forgiving format. After that it is only really useful to get skills used on you so you can learn what they do. It isn't very strong preparation for GvG.

TheOneMephisto · Dec 20, 2006, 07:56 PM // 19:56

Basically, go through at least most of one chapter with a character just to get a feel for the game. Afterwards, it's honestly better to just go RA a ton with a bunch of random builds to learn skills and how they interact/work. Watching observer can also help give you a grasp of common skills in GvG and how they work/how they are used.

Thomas.knbk · Dec 20, 2006, 09:08 PM // 21:08

Yeah, pretty much forget everything you know about PvE strategy. It doesn't apply to GvG. Forget tanks, forget bonders, forget healing monks(!), forget echo nukers and forget invincimonks.
PvE and PvP are two totally different worlds. For you as a mesmer, I don't know if a lot is going to change because I've never played mesmer in PvE. in PvP a mesmer is a spike assist class. Key skills are Energy Burn, Spiritual Pain, Shame and Diversion. You can take any decent elite you want. PnH used me/p's with incoming, me/e's with Bsurge and a lot more in the tournament. Or you can just take Esurge.
Also, in PvP you'll have to kite (=run away from warriors). RA is a very good place to start learning the basics.

*lemming* · Dec 20, 2006, 10:08 PM // 22:08

Backfire and Empathy do not work in pvp.

Seltack · Dec 20, 2006, 10:15 PM // 22:15

" in PvP a mesmer is a spike assist class"

Disagree. Mesmers play a very important shut down role in GvG utilising the skills like shame diversion (which you mentioned, how you listed this as spiking idk, but whatever) blackout aswell as denial and interupts.

Ofcourse this depends strongly on the meta game. This season due to ridiculousness of spirtual pain and the ease of use of so many utility skills as elites mesmers have fulfilled the spike role you suggested for the main part, but the previous season a lot of guilds were running surge based builds at some points and there will always be hex heavy builds featuring mesmers around somewhere. When Spirtual pain gets nerfed to hell (I can't see ANET not doing that based on past examples) you will see them again used more in roles other than "spike assist".

They are a challenging and varried class to play and are also very versitile, bringing useful skills for the party in many cases such as hard res, fc hex removal, draw conditions and snares/blinds. The utility of the class explains it use in so many "balanced" builds that a built to be able to handle any situation.

Thom Bangalter · Dec 20, 2006, 11:19 PM // 23:19

I've seen backfire work in pvp.

ump · Dec 20, 2006, 11:54 PM // 23:54

Have each player in your guild specialize and practice as few roles as possible (ie Melee attacker, healer, flag runner, interrupter, etc.). This way, you can attempt to master the roles you are responsible for. You get some flexibility in how you accomplish that role (sword warrior, axe warrior, hammer warrior, dervish, etc. for example) depending on which is better for a particular team build so it's not like you have to play the same thing all the time.

TheOneMephisto · Dec 21, 2006, 12:39 AM // 00:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by ump

Have each player in your guild specialize and practice as few roles as possible (ie Melee attacker, healer, flag runner, interrupter, etc.). This way, you can attempt to master the roles you are responsible for. You get some flexibility in how you accomplish that role (sword warrior, axe warrior, hammer warrior, dervish, etc. for example) depending on which is better for a particular team build so it's not like you have to play the same thing all the time.

However, when you're getting started you should play every single role at least some. Playing a role allows you to understand it's weaknesses and limitations.

nova_lyphe · Dec 21, 2006, 01:29 AM // 01:29

Cheers guys, this is fantastic just what i wanted.

Someone read this thread and has joined the guild to help us get started PvPing, and a lot of the alliance are interested in helping if the guild doesnt have enough members online. All that remains i think is to come up with a couple of builds and try them in unrated matches to start with.

Cheers

Nova